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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Mar 25, 2010 7:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

On and off for the past few years, i've been curious about the whole 'Jam Band' label, specifically as related to the Grateful Dead. Of note, not once during my initial GD-listening period [early-'80s to early-'90s] did i ever hear the expression 'Jam Band', neither toward the GD or any band. Which isn't to say that the term wasn't bandied about back then, just that i never encountered it.

In fact, i'm not exactly sure when the term 'Jam Band' entered into my consciousness, but i am fairly certain it was only around 4 or 5 years ago.

If my preference in music was for the sort of music that we today categorize with jam bands, then i would probably have been aware of the term much earlier, but since my taste leans toward bands that jam rather than jam bands, such is not the case.

Having said all that, i just cannot accept the fact that the GD are a 'Jam Band', i'm just not seeing/hearing it. And i don't mean that it's a case of their music being singular and no other band was or is like them, the label just doesn't fit.

Perhaps in concession to 'Jam Band' enthusiasts, i might agree that the later years can be considered akin to the jam band style, but even here i have my doubts.

What is a 'Jam Band'? Is it the style/type of music? Is it long jam sequences, and/or continuous playing/transition from song to song? Is it a philosphy and/or a movement? Does the fan base come into consideration? When did the term become vogue? Did early issues of Relix refer to the GD as a 'Jam Band'?

Your thoughts?

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Poster: stealyourwife Date: Mar 25, 2010 7:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

Grateful Dead are a ROCK band imo. They had been known to go into long extended "jams". I think the term "jamband" came about to describe genre mixing bands that came out in the late 90's.

From group to group and song to song these bands had nothing CONSISTENTLY in common EXCEPT the fact that they were known to go into long extended "jams"...thus "jamband"

thats just my take on the subject.

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Poster: buck78 Date: Mar 25, 2010 7:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

I don't know what a "jamband" is, but I believe that the bands that are labeled in that genre are lacking. They can play their instruments well enough, but when it comes to style and songwriting abilities, they are not on the bus. A band like Umphrey's McGee is a jamband. They play well, but their influences extend about as far as Frank Zappa, and their songs suck. Today's bands such as Drive-by Truckers or Ryan Adams and the Cardinals display good influences, top-notch songwriting, and they can jam!

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Poster: groovernut Date: Mar 26, 2010 11:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

wow, where to start!

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Poster: stealyourwife Date: Mar 25, 2010 7:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

I saw the Drive By Truckers a few years ago and I wasn't impressed. They may have just been to drunk to get it together that night...slammin Jack Daniels on stage can only do so much for your stage presence before it bites ya in the ass.

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Poster: SkyDawg Date: Mar 26, 2010 12:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

Arb, I only remember hearing the term "jam band" being thrown around beginning in the nineties after Jerry died. It seemed like to me then as now, that the term only applied to bands that were known to play songs with lots of so-called "improvisation". In other words, it was an attempt by the rock press to label a style of music they found difficult to pigeon-hole any other way. Bands like The Grateful Dead, Phish, The Allman Brothers and others who attracted dedicated followers, bands who played long non top-forty songs and still attracted crowds. The labels must be in place in order for them to classify and explain what type of band they are talking about. Otherwise, they have no way to explain! I never heard the term mentioned when other "jam bands" were in their hay-day, bands like Jethro Tull, Yes, Santana, Ten Years After, Traffic, The Marshall Tucker Band and many others were known to play long improvisational songs. They were usually labelled "psychedelic" or "country rock", "Southern Rock" or "british invasion" or some some such thing. It's a labelling process that has been going on for decades now.. pop, rock R&b, psychedelic music, disco, punk, grunge, americana, roots, new age, new wave, easy listening, country, country rock, folk, folk rock, christian, christian contemporary, gospel, world, latin, new age, international, jazz, classical new age, gangsta rap, electronic, dance music, soul, classic rock, Motown... whatever....
Heck, the Dead were only trying to take the lead from guys like Coltrane..

This post was modified by SkyDawg on 2010-03-26 07:05:15

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Mar 26, 2010 5:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

thanks SkyDawg, guess you're right and everything that sells must be labeled; but i just can't buy into the GD being a 'Jam Band', even if their 'sound' meets certain criteria of the label; cheers

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Poster: bigbossdan Date: Mar 26, 2010 9:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

I would take issue with Yes being included in a discussion of jam band. I think extended improv, noodling guitar band is a criteria that most would agree on. While Yes had extended instrumental pieces, they were not improvisational. They were highly orchestrated, precise works that followed the same formula each time they were played.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 26, 2010 7:41am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

Yes, SD, you reminded me of so many others that did extended jams as well (TYA, Sant, Tull, MTB...), and as you say, most fit a particular genre much better than being lumped together as "jam bands" (except in that, yeah, they did/do jam! But, not too much different than some other, somewhat superficial means of lumping them--though I am at a loss for an analogy right now!), so that we called ABB, MTB & such "southern R&R" (or some such), and Yes et al. "prog rock" and so on...

In a way, this links back to the thread the other day where I may have inappropriately implied "CREAM, like the DEAD, were bands known for extended jams" (I didn't use "jam bands" cause like Arb the term is foreign to me) as if it was a genre, and others pointed out, like MS, that CREAM was "12 bar blues" or what have you based, etc., etc., and went on to discuss the dramatic diff's to where many decided we couldn't even put CREAM and the DEAD "together" and that in a way, I'd been "wrong" to do it with me "CREAM vs DEAD" thread because folks thought they were too diff to compare (and I was doing it just on the "jam" superficial similarity aspect).

Thanks.

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Poster: Incornsyucopia Date: Mar 26, 2010 11:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

This is a nice discussion. If anyone's interested I wrote a paper on this very question as part of a master's degree in musicology at McGill University and I've posted it on my blog:http://incornsyucopia.blogspot.com/2010/03/paper-on-history-of-jambands.html

Any comments would be appreciated

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Poster: Incornsyucopia Date: Mar 26, 2010 11:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

Actually, I just noticed that it comes out very small. So you can read it here much easier: http://www.scribd.com/doc/28992486/Backstrom-Jamband-Paper

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Poster: spacedface Date: Mar 27, 2010 8:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

Your article on Lesh and his bass is interesting:

http://incornsyucopia.blogspot.com/2009/02/music-analysis-article-searching-for.html

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Poster: Incornsyucopia Date: Mar 30, 2010 5:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

Glad you liked it. Hopefully one of these days I'll find the time to expand on it...

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Poster: Hal R Date: Mar 26, 2010 9:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

Well, I for one have really enjoyed the phenomenon of the Jam bands. I think it has been a breath of fresh air in the music scene. It has been a return to working with your fans, being noncommercial generally and really working on your chops. And it is much about movement; people go to these bands to DANCE. I am one of those that would much rather dance than sit on my ass in front of a computer screen. There are a variety of people of many ages, many young, energetic and positive and full of life. Don't run into many cynical bitter old farts there. All ages but not the gloomy types. But I will also say that I can't listen to any of these bands recorded as much as I can the GD. Sometimes the jams just go on to be jams for jamming sake and not explorative enough. And except for some of the Bluegrass based ones like String Cheese Incident and Yonder Mountain String Band they don't have the connection to the deep roots to "Old Weird America" as Harry Smith put it. They are several generations removed and grew up mainly on rock and roll. I have to mix my listening of jam bands with more roots types music, what has now been labeled "Americana" and talking of labels, maybe the Dead should be in this one too. Another thing lacking with the jam bands is the great songwriting that was integral to the Dead and why there songs will live on. But the magic of the Hunter/Garcia team is something that probably only comes up rarely. Also remember these guys were big readers and grew up with the poems of the Beats, science fiction and some classics, they were not part of the computer age. Is the novel dead, some may ask, is great songwriting dead, I may ask. Well, I still think the bands were the best from the era when I grew up, 60's - 70's but I want to remain open and not be closed to new forms of improvisation. It is the music my friends and I can dance to. For those of you that don't like jam bands, who do you go out and rock out to now? Or do you just sit at home and think about the good old days? Great topic on a great forum.

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Poster: whirlwind dreamer 65-95 Date: Mar 25, 2010 7:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

i believe arb that its related to taking a tune with minimal lyrics such as d-star and totaly jam the tune into 20 mins also my opinion is that a "jamband" in never in the mainstream radio play.if you think back to fm radio the longest tunes they ever would play is free bird and stairway to heaven in which mainstream radio still plays till this day.oh yeah! framptons do you feel like i do is another that comes to mind another tune that gets played with some jammin but i think the label refers to bands who like to improvise and see where the music takes them. just a thought.:)

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Mar 25, 2010 9:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

interesting your comment about minimal lyrics being part of the definition, i'll have to think about it ... so that would make Can a 'Jam Band'?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Can_%28band%29

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Poster: Hal R Date: Mar 26, 2010 2:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

Love them or hate them, either way one should watch the movie "Electric Apricot: Quest for Festeroo" by bassist Les Claypool. It is pretty funny. I still laugh thinking about some of the scenes, especially about an offer one of the members of Electric Apricot makes to Warren Haynes. Anyone else seen this one?

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Poster: stealyourwife Date: Mar 26, 2010 3:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

Electric Apricot came up in another post so i had to go back and watch it again...haHA...that movie is impressive cuz you can watch it 5 times and still crack up laughing.

"Do you like petting ducks at the zoo" lmao

i did some wikipedia research and found out Aiwass (E.Apricot bass player) is the one and only Bob Cock, long time friend of Claypools and the main character in the Jerry Was a Race Car Driver video. I thought that was noteworthy.

Definitely a classic movie.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 25, 2010 8:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

Hey ARb--look at this interesting START for wiki:

"Jam bands are musical groups whose albums and live performances relate to a fan culture that originated with the 1960s group Grateful Dead and continued in the 1990s with Phish. The performances of these bands often feature extended musical improvisation ("jams") over rhythmic grooves and chord patterns and long sets of music that cross genre boundaries.

While the seminal group Grateful Dead were originally categorized as psychedelic rock, by the 1990s the term "jam band" was used for groups playing a variety of genres, including those outside of rock such as funk, progressive bluegrass, and jazz fusion. "

I would tend to agree with this description, as it fits the fact that growing up, it wasn't til I had kids, in the 90s as they developed their own musical tastes, that I really even heard the term.

Certainly in the 60s and 70s we viewed the DEAD and the SF bands as "psych rock" or just "rock" bands, but I think we always felt they were diff enough to be termed psych rock or SF rock or SF sound (and folks knew what you meant by that). We certainly called the Kinks and the Stones "rock" bands, and knew the DEAD were not that same kind of rock...

However, we regularly used the word "jam" to distinguish the DEAD from all the others (as when telling a newbie what was unique about them), even among the SF bands, as we generally only considered QMS another band that jammed extensively (but again unless my memory is crap--could be--we never put the words together to term them "jam bands" at the time). We then, of course, viewed ABB as another band famous for jamming as they became widely known.

Likewise, looking across the pond, we viewed CREAM as famous for its jamming, and there are others, of course, but you get the idea. These few bands do a lot of jamming, the DEAD more than any of the others, but that is a very singular and overly simplistic criterion by which to lump them. We never did.

Among all the folks in the Bay Area that I grew up with, we singled out the DEAD, QMS and ABB, along with CREAM, as the four bands most recognized for extended jamming during concerts, again, without ever calling them "the jam bands" as we would have viewed (as widely discussed the other day here) CREAM as more blues based jamming, and the DEAD as more psych rock jamming...

Again, I am leaving lots of other bands out, but those four were at least very popular in the Bay Area (duh) in the late 60s, and folks did talk about them being somehow similar in that you might go to concert and be there for two hrs, but only hear 5-8 "songs" and certainly, the really big difference was most other bands, even SF ones like Moby Grape, BB&HoldCo, and JAirpl, that might do one or two longer songs, generally did a lot of 3-5 min songs that made them seem more "typical" as bands went...Even the Who, known for some extended theme albums, and some jams, generally played a larger number of straight up 3-5 min songs in a show...I know this is reducing it to very simple terms, but there you have it...

So, with bands like Phish (I guess...I seriously don't know their stuff), and others, in the 90s the term was coined (anyone know? recall it differently from me?), and I suppose the DEAD had to be "linked/lumped" with them given the long jamming nature meant at this most simplistic level, they were similar...

But, as for a "genre" by which to group bands, it seems a stretch...if we call the DEAD psych rock, ABB southern country rock, CREAM blues rock, then we can just say they expressed that via jams more so than other respective examples of those particular categories (good or bad as they are as well).

Boy, I really didn't mean to go on that long, and be so redundant! Lots of babbling there to say, 1) "jam band" was never a term I heard associated with the DEAD in the early days in the Bay Area, and I think didn't come about til the late 90s at the earliest, and 2) bands of different genres "jam" but putting them all together as "jam bands" as a result seems misplaced...

This post was modified by William Tell on 2010-03-26 03:41:00

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Poster: stealyourwife Date: Mar 25, 2010 8:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

yeah WT i'm pretty sure without bands like Phish, Disco Biscuits and SCI, the term "jam" would still be a verb describing long extended improv sessions within any given musical style and not a corporate genre tag.

Jazz and Blues musicians had been "jamming" long before GD.

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Mar 25, 2010 9:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

well Tell, you certainly put the whole question into a concise (more or less) nutshell, very nicely stated! Good to get the viewpoint from someone who was there (more or less) in the beginning as well. The salient point that jumps out at me in your reply is how when the term 'jam band' came about in the '90s, the GD were lumped in the same category, by reason of their history as a band trademarked by its jamming style.

Although, as stealyourwife aptly points out, Jazz & Blues acts were doing improvised 'jamming' long before the GD existed.

At the end of the day, even if the majority of folks refer to the GD as a jam band (i never will), the majority must at least recognize '68 GD as more in line with what you call 'psych rock', and that suits me just fine, '68 GD being their most exciting year anyway.

Keep an eye on your postbox...

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Poster: steam locomotive Date: Mar 25, 2010 10:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

Yes, I think Tell nails it. I've actually had discussions about this with friends. The key difference is, for lack of a better word, a postmodern one: the Dead didn't know they were a jam band. They just jammed.

All the jam bands grew up going to festivals and concerts by bands like the Dead (and the Allmans and Little Feat, etc.), and later -- somewhat self-consciously -- made music that attempted to recreate what they saw.

Speaking personally, as someone who loves the Dead and despises jam bands, this was not a positive development. It's at least two steps removed from the healthy sources of American music -- jazz, blues, country, bluegrass, etc. -- that the Dead drew on for inspiration. They mostly replaced it with preciousness and in some cases technical proficiency, but not much soul. Though perhaps some of this had to with the absence of a songwriter like Hunter.

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Mar 26, 2010 5:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

"as someone who loves the Dead [Jerry] and despises jam bands"

myself as well, and that is probably the underlying reason for my asking the question, i just don't like the bands/scene that the GD are now associated with due to the whole jam band label and the explosion of soul-less song-making!

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Mar 26, 2010 6:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

To be honest, throughout most of their career, the Dead played mostly songs, and stretched out ( "jammed") a few points in their concert . Most serious "Heads" usually prize those parts of the show .
Interesting how PHil & Friends, Ratdog,"The Dead", Furthur etc., all seem more like "Jam-bands" , they "jam" a higher % of the concert than the old GD. Still, what makes a these post-Dead groups more listenable , than most of the other Jam bands, is the old GD songs .Phish, while in a class of their own, doesn't have songs that are very "emotional evolving ( fun an interesting as they might be ), I love to hear the times Trey got to dig into the the Grateful Dead catalog . Those "Phil & Phish" shows (in 99 ) are some of most "Dead-like" shows in post Jerry era .

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Mar 26, 2010 7:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

Yep. The bands today who are grouped under the label of a Jam Band (even spawning their own award show "The Jammies" and a Sirius channel all their own) for me lack one key ingredient: soul. Many of them seem to jam for the sake of jamming, feeling that it is something they must do to retain their fan base, regardless of their own feelings at the time, resulting in oftentimes meandering and dry extended solos. To me it seems the Dead evolved their extended solos not just to please the crowd, but mainly because it was something they felt on a more personal level. It was if they were saying to the crowd "Hey, we're gonna play a 20 minute Darkstar now and if you feel it like we do, fantastic; if not try coming back tommorrow night and see if you can't hop on the bus with us".
Not to say this is true of ALL jam bands, but it seems to me that it is pervasive in the "genre".

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Mar 26, 2010 8:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

As Greg Allman says ,on a interview on the Beacon Theater dvd, " We're not a jam-band, but a band that jams" ( hope that is correct ). Since most jams/improvisaations are based on the melodic material of the song/"head," having good songs, may not be necessary for good improvisation, but it helps .
With the GD we were able to have our cake and eat it to .
Interesting that many of these bands , their improvisation rarely delve very "deep".
More "Shakedown" than "Dark Star" ( yes I love "Shakedown", but I think you know what I mean). I enjoy many of these bands, but , even Phish ( who are really a cut above , monster chops , etc.) lack the "soul" you mention . No "Brokedown Palace"s from any of these guys .

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Mar 26, 2010 9:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

Exactly.

I'm pretty sure the Dead were a once in a lifetime band. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but I have yet to hear a solo that hits me the same way a soul-shattering Morning Dew can. And I haven't even mention the vocals. While Jerry was never what one would call an outstanding vocalist on a technical level, there were times he could really delve deep and whip out some spine tingling moments (my favorite being his vocals in the Augsuta 84 Dew where he growls like an angry locomotive). Phish vocals I have always considered to be their weakest link. There are some "modern" jam bands, like Dave Matthews, that do have fantastic vocals that are full of emotion.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Mar 26, 2010 9:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

" I'm pretty sure the Dead were a once in a lifetime band. Maybe I'll be proven wrong"

I hope you will be but I think you are right. I've always figured if it could happen once it could again but so far no one comes close. Oh there are bands that are probably more technically profecient but the magic isn't there

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Poster: Hal R Date: Mar 26, 2010 9:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

I too think the Dead are a once in a lifetime band, hell I would say once in an era band. I truly think that they are part of a stream of touched folks like Beethoven, Bach, Coltrane and Miles. Part of who the Dead are has to do with their talents and the time they were a part of. Lots of very good bands came out of the times. And I posted earlier how much I enjoy jam bands. Discovering Phish for me was something that helped me going after Jerry left us, the spirit of exploration and to jam on songs was still alive even if the songs get silly, it moves me but never to the depths and heights of the GD.

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Poster: stealyourwife Date: Mar 26, 2010 9:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

omg, you did not just bring up DMB...teenage girl music imo.

if there's any exceptions to unemotional soulless jamband's its Keller Williams yall

http://www.archive.org/details/kw2006-05-05.matrix.flac16

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Mar 26, 2010 10:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

True enough, alot of his stuff I really don't like, but if you saw his version of Watchtower from the '07 or '08 Hyde Park festival, you might see my point. Outstanding.

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Poster: zappa1229 Date: Mar 26, 2010 10:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

I have to say that "jamband" is just a terrible label in general. Depending on who you ask it can apply to any band that doesn't play a a song the same way every time and maybe extends the length of their songs. I like to consider The Grateful Dead "American Music" since it is such a hodgepodge of so many different styles of classic american music (folk, blues, jazz, bluegrass, rock and roll, psychedelic, even disco in the 80s). Phish is another band does blends genres, although mostly jazz, rock, pop, psychedelic, funk & bluegrass.

I feel like calling any band a "Jamband" does a disservice to them bands by generalizing them all into one category.

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Poster: Incornsyucopia Date: Mar 26, 2010 6:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

But then that's what genre labels do! Individual instances never perfectly fit any label, and they nearly always claim to "unclassifiable," but such is the reality of generalizations. To me it's not a question of liking it or not; it IS how people talk about them and therefore the important question is why.

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Poster: Hal R Date: Mar 26, 2010 10:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

I have to say that I saw Keller Williams and he did nothing for me, everyone had told me how great he was but it didn't touch me or my brother who was with me. Thought it was lots of hype and looping. Maybe a wrong setting, maybe an age thing but I just don't think he touches the talents of great singer/songwriters like Dylan, Joni Mitchell, John Prine, Buddy Miller, Darrell Scott, Greg Brown.

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Mar 26, 2010 1:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

Keller is most readily comparable to Leo Kottke than other more folky singer/songwriters. He may not be as talented as a guitarist as Kottke, but I do like some of his songs. I don't listen often, but there are some fun songs like "Phreaker by the Speaker"...

Fun, light, kind of superficial "playing around" type of music... nothing like the truly classic sound of the GD. He actually started a real band for one year and they produced some of the best Keller style music :)

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Poster: stealyourwife Date: Mar 26, 2010 7:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

Your right, KW is definitely not on par with GD or more specifically Robert Hunter. HalR makes a good point with the songwriters he listed too...I just feel like out of all the jambands KW stands out because he doesn't seem to take himself too seriously and sounds like he's doing it for the love of music and not a pay check. I always get a good vibe at his shows and it indeed gets emotional at times...for me anyways.

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Poster: portmcgroin Date: Mar 26, 2010 7:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

Seeing Keller in a club is ok but a big stage its hard to take. Plus I have it stuck in my head that he moonlights as the free credit report guy. As far as the Dead being a jam band I would say that there is no doubt they laid the foundation for all these band. I think the key ingredient is the improv aspect of these bands it is not really based on genre more seeing or hearing them live. I have seen many bands be it funk, jazz, rock, bluegrass,country, blues, psych. etc.. that give you that hair raising experience with or without vocals. The Dead just had that ability to do all that in one show. I cant see another band being able to be like them because they all took there diff. backgrounds and had an open mind to try it. Then you have a couple guys writing incredible lyrics. The first time I heard an other one or darkstar with a cowboy tune sandwiched in it I was floored how do you go from space travel to wildwest like that.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 26, 2010 9:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

"space travel to wildwest like that."

Here's a great example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPRFdoAmGzs&;feature=related

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Poster: portmcgroin Date: Mar 27, 2010 6:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

Wonder if this is this 68 or 69? I didn't think they started sandwiching the cowboy tunes till like 71. Hilarious that the captain didn't get the girl the look on his face.. young lady.. and the hand jestures a classic. Shatners raw nerve is a good talk show I like the way it gets up close and personal with the guests and the seating arrangement, they tend to go off on some wild tangents kinda like this forum.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Mar 27, 2010 7:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

Yeah, on all points! It was just funny that reading your post, which of course, is exactly the way I have thought of it before, esp in 71 with so many DS-->M&MU trans's, that this time, all I could think of was "STrek-->OKCorr fight scene"!

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Poster: stealyourwife Date: Mar 26, 2010 11:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

He's definitely better with a band...hopefully the looping era is done. It did get old quick.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Mar 27, 2010 9:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: GD - More "Shakedown" than "Dark Star"

More "Shakedown" than "Dark Star" also describes the GD after the late 70s.

We're luck to have so many old recordings in such good shape.

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Mar 27, 2010 1:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: GD - More 'Shakedown' than 'Dark Star'

Sadly, you are right . Though there were still times they cut a little deeper, say in a good playing jam, etc. . I like the funk/dance feel to say, Shakedown .
But I have heard some pretty one dimensional "white boy funk" from some of these jambands,

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Poster: snori Date: Mar 26, 2010 9:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

Bill Graham had it nailed - "They're not the best at what they do, they're the only ones that do what they do."

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Poster: dead-head_Monte Date: Mar 26, 2010 9:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Concerning The 'Jam Band' Label

I never saw or even listened to Phish, or Widespread Panic. I know these bands had huge followings of dedicated fans. In a knee-jerk reaction, I've always considered them as Rock bands. Same thing with ABB, GD, and other Rock bands.

As mentioned, jamming goes back to jazz and swing music, at the very least. Once Bluegrass music broke out in the early 70s, Newgrass music evolved - with plenty of jamming.

I think, once String Cheese Incident came along, it was understandable to call them a "jam band" since they combined a wider spectrum of musical genres - and, they jammed alot also. I'm not saying SCI is the first band to be called a jam band. It's easy for me to make this point and use them as an example.

Also, hasn't the modern era of musical festivals given more jam bands better venues to thrive at?